In 1949, the Communists take power in Beijing and the Nationalists retreat to Taiwan. The following year, China invades Tibet. On what basis does China make claims on Tibet?

We have a lot of historical interpretations of that. From the Tibetan side, if you go back to the history, there is no clear history that proves Tibet is a part of China or China has control over Tibet. It's not very clear at all. There have been times when the Mongols have ruled China and Tibet as well, so that even the Mongols can claim Tibet. But the Chinese have been saying that in the past what's happened is during the Manchu-in the Manchu dynasty also, which is actually not a Chinese dynasty, there was the priest-patron relationship between the Tibetan lama and the Chinese, and the Chinese claim that we were the patrons of Tibetan Buddhism and all that. They claim that as one piece of evidence. But there's no real basis to that, really.

What happens in the period from 1950 to 1959, when there is a major uprising against Chinese rule?

First the Chinese army entered Tibet through the eastern part of Tibet, where my family is also from. My father is from Chamdo, and those were the areas which were invaded in the beginning. It      wastheendof1949.They were already in those parts. What has happened since then is there has been a huge rebellion against that because people were against them. There were Tibetans gathering forces and fighting against that. But somehow they had to relent against the mighty Chinese forces. And in 1951 the Chinese actually forced upon the Tibetans the 17-Point Peace Agreement under which-the Tibetan government, which was based in Lhasa, had no other choice but to go to that 1951 meeting. The 17 -Point Peace Agreement it was called, the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet Agreement. And there, under duress, the members were forced to sign. If there is any proof that China is part of Tibet, I think it is that particular agreement. Before that there is no legal document that proves that China has any claims over Tibet at all. The Tibetans have their own historical evidence. Both sides have historical evidence to show in their own ways. The Chinese manipulate history to show that at this particular time Tibet was part of China. But the only legal document that proves that Tibet is part of China is the 1951 17-Point Peace Agreement, which was actually forced upon, signed under duress by the Tibetan delegation.

India becomes independent in 1947, and its first prime minister is Jawaharlal Nehru. What was his position on Tibet, because Nehru was the leader of the Bandung movement, Third World neutrality.

Unfortunately, Pandit Nehru had a lot of socialist ideals. And at that time also, because they had just come out of hundreds of years under British rule, so they had just come out of that. I think he genuinely, sincerely felt that he could forge a tie with China. He had that kind of feeling that he would befriend China. It would be good for the Indian government, in the national interest. At that time there was Cold-War politics going on, and he was very strongly for a nonaligned movement. From his heart I think he was supporting, because Tibetans eventually did get refuge in India, but I guess politically he sincerely thought that he could forge ties with China. That kind of kept his policies towards Tibet a bit vague. He couldn't take a clear stand on the Tibetan issue.

What happens on March 10, 1959?

That was the day when the Tibetan uprising took place in Lhasa. There were already many, many Tibetans coming out of various parts of Tibet to Lhasa, and there was a real fear about His Holiness, the Dalai Lama's security and safety. People had come voluntarily to kind of be his bodyguards. There were people sleeping outside, because at that time he was in the Norbulingka Palace, and there were thousands and thousands of Tibetans kind of camping outside the palace and wanting that his safety and security be guaranteed.
The Chinese were actually out to manipulate him. If you read his books later on, such as Freedom and Exile, he says that he was kind of caught in between. He really wanted to work with the Chinese to have some solution for the Tibetan issue. At the same time, his people were getting frustrated. They were not trusting the Chinese at all. So he was trying to be the go-between. And then at that point he was invited for some show by the Chinese, and he had shown his willingness to be there. But the Tibetans were really concerned that this was just a facade and the Chinese were going to arrest him and he might be taken to prison. That was the day when Tibetans rose up against the Chinese, on 10th March, when His Holiness was supposed to go for some Chinese-sponsored event.

And since then he's been living in Dharamsala.

Yes. The next morning he escaped in disguise. He crossed the Himalayas into exile.

On March 10, 2008, there are peaceful demonstrations in Tibet against Chinese rule and marking the anniversary of the 1959 uprising. However, within a few days those demonstrations turned deadly. What happened?

March 10 this year was the 49th anniversary of the Tibetan national uprising day. And they were Drepung monastery monks who decided to take to the streets of Barkhor and Lhasa. They protested against the Chinese oppressive policies, and that was brutally crushed down. The following days, especially on March 14, there were protests inside Tibet. People got to know about it later, that these people were arrested outside of Lhasa, in other Tibetan areas, in Kham and Amdo. And they all rose up in many, many parts of Tibet, from monks in monasteries to lay people. They all arose against the Chinese. There was a brutal crackdown on the 14th of March, and also people took to a little bit of attacking Chinese properties as well. This is a symbol of the Chinese presence inside Tibet, so there were Tibetans who were really frustrated and showing that out of it.
Many, many Tibetans were arrested. The reports that we have are about 154 killed and over 500 people were injured during that Chinese brutal crackdown. They brought tanks inside, people were being shot outside. They were shooting into the crowd blindly. And many, many were arrested. The reports we have so far are over 3,000 arrested. I think even now they're having door-to-door searches, there are arbitrary arrests every day, and the sItuation is still very grim and serious.

The current president of China, Hu Jintao, ran Tibet in 1989 during the last crackdown, so he has a lot of history with the Tibetan people.

When Hu Jintao came to power, there was both a positive and negative side to that. There was some school of thought that believed, oh, because he has been there and he was the party secretary there when there was a brutal crackdown, martial law was declared, that's why he would be a real hardliner on Tibet and he's not good news at all for us. On the other hand, there were people that said he knows the Tibetan issue more than other leaders, so maybe he has changed and things might be different. But it has proved that it has not helped. He has been a hardliner on Tibet.

The conventional explanation for why there is this current uprising is because of the August 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Is that credible? Do you believe that that's why there's a connection being made to now put the pressure on China?

I absolutely don't think so. What actually triggered the whole thing was the Chinese inhumane, repressive crackdown on the Tibetans following the March 10 protests inside Tibet. That triggered it off. The Olympics is a major event, an opportunity that we would use, but that's not what caused all this. The main cause was what happened in Tibet on March 10 and its aftermath.

There have been demonstrations in Athens, London, Paris, San Francisco, and New Delhi. Wherever the Olympic torch has appeared, there has been massive state security presence to protect the torch.

That has been the case. And especially in India, it was really overwhelming, with 17,000 security forces guarding the torch and surrounding it. I think it has received more security than any dignitary, any president of a country would get. It was a bit too much, the security aspect of it.

What has been happening inside of Tibet in terms of culture? There has been an influx of Chinese settlers, who mayor may not be subsidized by the government to settle in Tibet.

As we go on, I think it's very apt we can say that there is a cultural genocide going on inside Tibet. What the Chinese government has been aggressively and consistently doing has been a demographic kind of aggression, where they have lots of Chinese coming in. There are many reports that claim they are getting subsidies to come in there. And people who are posted inside Tibet, the army or working for the government, they get hardship pay, where they get more money than they usually get in any other part of China. Also, we hear from people coming out of Tibet that even small businesses that the Tibetans could have done themselves, like seIling khatas, scarves, on the road or even tailoring, especially in the cities- Lhasa, Chamdo, Shigatse, Gyangze, and elsewhere-the businesses are monopolized by the Chinese ..
In terms of when you say cultural genocide, it's not just the fact that the economy is taken over by the Chinese, but also our language and religion. They are the foundation of a culture, the identity of a race. They are being totally neglected. The Tibetan language doesn't have any value inside Tibet. If you are skilled in the Tibetan language and you don't know Chinese, you can't get a job anywhere. You are not competent to get any kind of job be it in government or business. In schools there is generally a lack of proper teachers and the language is not encouraged at all. The Chinese language is really pushed as the main language, and Tibetan, which is very much a part of our culture and identity, is really pushed to the back.
As for the religion, you know very well they have always attacked it. And China over many years has launched something called patriotic re-education programs in the monasteries. They are mainly targeting the monks and nuns arid trying to indoctrinate them about the socalled motherland and condemn the His Holiness the Dalai Lama. There are anti-Dalai Lama campaigns. They try to manipulate somehow to make people feel more Chinese. They have done that. Even now I hear that it's being intensified but it has not succeeded. Still you see so many monks and nuns in the forefront of the movement. China is intensifying these patriotic re-education campaigns.

The Tibetan script is completely different from Chinese.

Our script is actually borrowed from the old Sanskrit and Pali. It is completely different. Chinese is character-based, and they have to create new words all the time. But ours is alphabet-based. We have a proper script.

In terms of cultural treasures, you mentioned monasteries. What other examples are there of Chinese disrespect and violation of cultural values?

The new Chinese buildings are getting up. In places like Lhasa, which is a very holy place around Potala, there are brothels, discos. They've changed the look of it. It doesn't look like a Tibetan city anymore. It has a look of any other Chinese city. In that sense also the culture has really kind of gone, diminished.

The Potala is the traditional residence of the Dalai Lama and it's kind of like the symbol. At least outside of Tibet, people see postcards and calendars of the Potala.

That's right. Potala is the winter palace of His Holiness. And whenever you see Tibet people, normally it has the Potala. It symbolizes Tibet for us.

What you're saying is it's basically become a kind of tourist attraction. It's not really functioning in any real way.

That's right. Even the religion, the Chinese now say that we have this religious freedom. I think that's also for the public and tourist consumption. Every year we have about 2,000 to 3,000 people escaping across the Himalayas. And they wouldn't escape if everything is so well and so good and so happy inside Tibet. And if you listen to them, many of them are monks and nuns, and they will tell you that the religion that they say there is only a show. If they have tourists there, they will show that the monks are chanting or something. But the real essence of the religion is gone.
Now here in exile we have proper universities, monastic universities, where you can study and after many, many years of study you can get a Geshi degree, you can graduate-you can be a very senior through studies. That whole thing is not there inside Tibet. What they have is just the appearance of it, the look of it, I think for tourist purposes.

Tell me about communication and information. For example, we're sitting here in your office. You have a Mac on your desk. Can you send an email to Tibet and get a response right away? Can you pick up your cell phone and call someone?

Over the last couple of years, yes, things have changed in that direction, I think, because of Internet and mobile phones. People are able to communicate. So I am able to communicate, my father is able to communicate with relatives. But it's erratic. It's not like how we do it here in India. It's not like you can call them anytime you want. And when you call them, they are also very careful what they say. If they have to say something, they would say it in metaphors. It wouldn't be directly saying. If you say, "How is the political stuff?" I think it's totally dangerous for them. So you have to be very careful how you talk to them. And the Internet, yes, young Tibetans are now getting on Internet and chat also sometimes. And you can connect with them, yes.

What do you think of foreign tourists, Americans, for example, going to Tibet and spending money there? Do you think that's a good idea?

It's a very difficult question. I think we can't condemn tourists for going to Tibet. I think they should go, they should see. I think even we should go and see for ourselves what's happening inside. At the same time, we have to be informed. Unless you know the history, unless you're informed and you know what's really going behind everything, then you just come back and you feel like, oh, everything is so good. The roads are wide, the streets are clean. People say that sometimes who don't have any idea what's happening inside. So if you go as an informed tourist, that's a good thing. And then you come back and you can really tell what is on the surface and what is behind. I think it is okay for tourists to go and visit.

The Dalai Lama is a Nobel Peace Prize winner, he was recently honored in France. He was called "a champion of peace, " and "a tireless advocate of dialogue between peoples." What role does he play beyond a spiritual one in the Tibetan community, both inside of Tibet and outside?

His Holiness has talked about being retired. He's saying that he's semi-retired now, and I think generally he wants to be away from politics and kind of pass it on to the newly elected-we have an elected prime minister in exile and also we have a parliament, and the government in exile is running. But I think it's not very easy, even for Tibetan people themselves, the Tibetan government in exile. Also, I think they need his vision. His wisdom is always kind of called upon. And I think it will be very hard for him to deny that and say, "I can't do this." I think it will be very hard for him to retire, even if he wants to, because people are looking towards him for leadership in every sense, politically as well. So his role in exiled government, his advice is always sought. In the case of our parliament in exile, we also have up to three members he can appoint in the parliament. In terms of any policies the government takes, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is always there at the helm. Even the autonomy, the middle path, the middle-way approach, is something that he has been very passionate about, and that was adopted by the government.
There was an opinion poll. His Holiness called for a referendum, but that was not feasible and practical. So we had an opinion poll where a majority of the people said-they didn't say autonomy or independence. They said, "We will go with the wishes of His Holiness." So I think, even if he's semi-retired, he is very much the leader, both spiritual and political. And within Tibet people revere him. And when you hear any protests or any slogans, there is always "Long Live the Dalai Lama," always His Holiness.
People really are highly emotional about how the Chinese also-the Chinese campaign of anti-Dalai Lama has been very, very unpopular. That's one reason why people are so resentful of the Chinese as well. There are many reasons, of course, but one is the Chinese smear campaign that they're doing against His Holiness the Dalai Lama. That is really causing people a lot of unhappiness and frustration also.

Beijing is accusing him of fomenting rebellion, calling him a "splittist", a term I've never heard before, apparently, that he wants to split China, and he is leading a Dalai clique.

That's right. Beijing has always been targeting the Dalai Lama. Also you must know that a delegation that goes to talk with the Chinese counterparts, they don't call it the government in exile, because, of course, they don't recognize the government. They say "the Dalai Lama's representatives." So for them, they try to really boil the issue down to the status of the Dalai Lama. They know how important he is. He's the most important figure in the Tibetan world. And they know that if they attack him, if they kind of diminish his influence and power and his kind of dynamism in the world, that's going to help them in the long run.

You mentioned a poll being taken. Was that also conducted inside of Tfbet or outside?

Inside Tibet there was no visible poll, but people were asked; many people were kind of consulted very discreetly. But, of course, there was a proper opinion poll in exile.

India, of course, is the site of the largest Tibetan community in exile, over 100,000.

That's right.

Is it still forbidden to display a photograph of the Dalai Lama in Tibet?

Yes. You can be jailed, you can be arrested for having pictures of the Dalai Lama, especially in the Tibet autonomous region. I've heard that in parts outside-you know that China has kind of demarcated central Tibet and parts of Kham as TAR, the so-called Tibet Autonomous Region. There are many, many Tibetan areas, we call them Kham, Amdo, and U- Tsang, the three traditional provinces of Tibet. So what the Chinese have done, they have separated all of Amdo and large chunks of Kham and incorporated them into other provinces of China: Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu, and Qinghai. So when China says Tibet Autonomous Region, they don't figure in at all. Inside TAR there is a huge clampdown on anything that has anything to do with His Holiness, even any literature, any paper. If you are found with that, you would be arrested, you could be sent to prison for a long time. But outside of the so-called Tibet Autonomous Region I've heard that some tourists have found photos. But Tibetans hide them and only show them when it is safe. In those places it's a little more relaxed, I heard. So they're able to display them, and then when they hear that there is some raid, the Chinese are coming, they just hide them.

How many Tibetans are inside the TAR? Is that about 6 million? What about the adjoining provinces?

When we say 6 million, we mean the whole of traditional Tibet. Actually, the 6 million also, I don't know how accurate that figure is, because we have never had any census. Only one-third of the population lives in TAR. More Tibetans are outside, in other areas, in Kham and Amdo.

What impact has the high-speed railway line to Tibet had?

The so-called development, China is saying that we are doing that because we want to really get Tibet in the mainstream and get Tibet developed and all that. But really at the back of their mind, if you really see the Chinese agenda on development, it's driven by the issues of stability, unity, and control. That's their agenda. The railway is also very much driven by that. Now very easily the Chinese can quickly deploy the army into Tibet. And also depletion of the mineral resources. It would be so much easier for people to enter Tibet. The whole demographic aggression, the policy of population transfer, I think that's also going to be intensified by this railway. So it's not in the interests of the Tibetan people. China has not generally considered the Tibetan people's interest but more their own agenda inside Tibet.

For many years I remember hearing in the United States people defending the Chinese occupation of Tibet on the grounds that it was a feudal, backward society run by a handful of monks who exercised tremendous authority over the population.

We don't have to hide anything that has happened in the past. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has also said that in the past we have had a feudal system. Most countries have gone through that. Europe has also gone through a feudal system. India also had landlordism and all kinds of feudal systems. We were in the process of changing when China attacked. And if we were left to ourselves, I think we would be much, much better off than what Tibet is going through now. The society was evolving already. The thirteenth Dalai Lama had brought in a lot of changes also. So there was a sense of evolution, a sense of change when China occupied Tibet.

In New Delhi there's a place called Junter Munter. It's near the Parliament. There are protests and demonstrations there. I noticed a sign that said "The Dalai Lama is our teacher. Peace and nonviolence is our credo. " How long can activists retain their commitment to nonviolence and peace given the scope and scale of the Chinese repression?

Increasingly you've noticed the young Tibetans are getting very, very frustrated with the way things are going on, the way that China is dealing with the Tibetan issue. But I think for us we have leaders like His Holiness who have been talking about nonviolence. Even, I think, most Tibetans would like to engage in nonviolent action. There are not many Tibetans who are prescribing violent methods of protest. So largely our protest has been nonviolent, inside Tibet and in India.
China is desperately trying to equate the Tibetan-they also blame that we are plotting, suicide squads. They are trying to equate us with terrorism. But there has not been even one instance where you can say that Tibetans have come up with any such activities. So I think there is an attempt on the Chinese side to try to  undermine our struggle so that we can also be lumped with the groups that are so-called terrorist groups. That has been the attempt from China. But from our side also people also have been frustrated, but they have still largely been nonviolent.

Are you at all inspired by Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela?

Definitely. In our nonviolent struggle Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela both are revered, and we do believe in their ideals and we have dreams. As Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream." We all have a dream. And I think in our movement the most important thing for us, especially living outside in exile, is that we keep our hope and our dreams alive. And I think we will have a solution to the Tibetan issue.

Speaking of the younger generation and their impatience and frustration, Tehelka is a magazine published here in India. It had a recent cover story called "Tibet's New Warriors: The battle for freedom is poised to shift away from the Dalai Lama to a young, articulate, and impatient leadership. " One of the articles features an interview with an activist, Tenzin Tsundue. "It's time to break the rules, " he says.

We live in a democratic society, and Tibetans have been proudly claiming that our exiled government is based on democratic principles. And we would like to have the same order when we have a solution inside Tibet as well. And even, yes, personally, I believe that we have to have leaders. At the moment there is almost like a vacuum. There is the Dalai Lama, who is really dynamic and shining and globally well-known, and then we don't have many people. So I really appreciate any young Tibetans or any new leaders that would come up. It's good for the movement and good for the community. And if they have different ideas, we are a democratic society, and it would be appreciated. And let's see democratically how that person gets approved or not approved. So it's all up tothe people. We do need more leaders. We need many, many leaders. The movement has to be sustained and it has to go on.

Are you at all troubled or concerned about this issue of this secular versus nonsecular, the Dalai Lama being a religious figure?

I'm not concerned, because even though he is a religious figure, he is very secular in his ideas and he has conducted himself in such a way that-even within the Buddhism also we have so many different sects. He's handled it really well. And beyond Buddhism also he has been somebody who has really gone out and sought interfaith dialogues. He has been a very secular leader. So in that sense I'm not perturbed by the fact that he's a religious leader.
In that same Tehelka article, another activist with the Tibetan Women's Association says, "We don't have much time left. " There's a feeling, maybe, that, again, with the scope and scale of the Chinese intervention and colonization of Tibet, that time is running out.

On one hand, she's right. We don't have much time left. That's why every Tibetan has to really kind of breathe in and breathe out every time and work for Tibet. I think that's really important, that we don't waste time. On the other hand, if the struggle goes on for a long time, we have to be optimistic, we have to be hopeful. If you don't have that, then I think it's going to die down. But I don't feel, frankly, that our movement will die down, because all the young Tibetans, in their hearts we all have a very, very strong sense of identity and nationalism. I think that will remain, whether one leader goes, the next leader comes. Our culture and identity and our nationalism is very, very strong. I think we will have no problem to sustain the movement. But at the same time, she's right. Time is running out and every day is important for us. So we really need to think about every day contributing to the Tibetan cause and working on the Tibetan issue.

I remember talking to Edward Said, the Palestinian-American scholar, about the whole question of being an issue. How does it feel to always have this question mark over your head? It creates a great deal of ambiguity and insecurity as well as opportunity in some ways.

If you talk to some other people, it might be different, but for me it's a very interesting part of my life. I think most Tibetans would feel that. Because I think we have something that we can every day fight for and live for. There is an issue that you're working on that's close to your heart and there is some meaning to your life in that sense. So that struggle makes it meaningful in a way, that you have a cause that you fight for.

Let's talk about India and Tibet. Tibet is clearly a dilemma for New Delhi. China is one of India's largest trading partners. India has its own border issues with China, quite separate from Tibet. And India has its own separatist movements in the Northeast and in Kashmir, that it's very concerned about. If it were to acknowledge Tibetan sovereignty, some would say that that would open the floodgates inside of India to other groups saying, "Look, if you're granting sovereignty to Tibet, why not to Kashmir, why not to the Northeast?"

Whenever we talk about Tibet in India, the question comes up. The ones who are not really pro-China but the ones who support not taking any stand on Tibet would come up with this argument. They would say that if we touch the Tibet issue, then the Pandora's box will open up. But I think it's very different.
First of all, India and China are two very different countries. India is a democratic country, Chi!1a is a totalitarian regime. In India we have rule of law, in China there is no rule of law. In Kashmir, of course, I'm not denying that there are human rights abuses. But even then the media can report it. There is a lot of focus. People can see it. And Kashmiris, however imperfect it may be, still have a system where there are elections. People are being elected from all parties, and that party, the extremist party, could come into power. All that is possible in India. Even in the Northeast India is talking. I know in Nagaland they have had high-level talks. I've really studied the Naga issues quite well. They have had many, many talks. They've had them abroad, they've had them in India, they're going on. And it's at the highest level. But in the case of Tibet, since 2002 we have had six rounds of talks with the United Work Front. Its main task is unifying the motherland. And our dialogues with the UWF are not at the highest level.
Many Indians are now kind of realizing also that the Tibetan issue is linked to the Indian issues of security, of border disputes, of environmental issues, because the source of many of the Indian rivers is in Tibet. Also, if there were a solution to the Tibetan problem, the Indians would benefit a lot. Of course, the ones who are really cynical and only believe in the national interest, for them also I think it's very important to realize-I think many of them do now-that the Tibetan issue is closely tied with the Indian issue, and that if there is some solution to the Tibetan issue, it will benefit India as a state in every sense. I think that's important, too.

Please explain. 1 didn't understand. Since 2002 you have been meeting with whom?

Since 2002 a dialogue has resumed, and we can't even call it negotiation because it's some kind of a meeting, more of a confidence-building measure between the Dalai Lama's delegation, which has his special envoy, an E.U. envoy, and two other staff members managing the two. The United Work Front is a department in the Chinese government. Its main task is working for the unification of the motherland. They actually deal with all the so-called ethnic minorities in China. So at that level our talks are with the leaders of the United Work Front.
We've had six rounds of talks with them, and they have largely been of just trying to understand each other's position. And now we feel that there is some understanding, that they understand what the Tibetan position is and we understand, of course, what their position is. But even then it seems like that's not the case, because the Chinese always accuse His Holiness the Dalai Lama for leading a disguised independence movement, that he's not really genuine about autonomy.

But the Dalai Lama has only called for autonomy, not for political independence.

That's right. Consistently since his Strasbourg proposal in France, and before that the Five-Point Peace Plan in the U.S" he has called for autonomy. In every public forum and at every opportunity he has been saying that "I'm genuinely supporting autonomy for Tibet." "A high degree of autonomy," he calls it. But the Chinese have been claiming that the Dalai Lama should give up his claim for independence, and then we can have a talk; and that he should say that Tibet and Taiwan are an integral part of China, conditions like that.

Does the Dalai Lama's position frustrate you? Would prefer he openly call for an independent Tibet?

If you ask each Tibetan, each Tibetan would want independence. That's what we were: we were independent before. For many, many years, before His Holiness came up with the middle-way approach, Tibetans always shouted slogans, we believed, we lived the dreams of independence. And even now I think there is a kind of dilemma for people. On one hand, they revere His Holiness. They believe in his wisdom and vision. People are devoted to him, so they believe whatever he is saying. So they want to follow him. At the same time, deep down, independence is what they would want ideally. But His Holiness's vision and wisdom and pragmatism, I think people are talking about autonomy and supporting Bis Holiness in that. And if His Holiness says independence, Tibetans have always wanted independence, so I think there is no problem in that.

What kind of signals are you getting from Washington on Tibet?

There is no country really in the world that has accepted Tibet, has really recognized the exile government, for that matter. From Washington, from the Congress, we have always had really strong support. They have always passed resolutions calling for dialogue. They push for dialogue. Even George Bush has. He says, "I'm going to go for the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, but I really, sincerely-every time I talk to the Chinese leaders I push for dialogue with the Dalai Lama." In that sense their sympathy is there with the Tibetan people. But how strongly, I don't know. That's not very clear.

You mentioned briefly environmental issues. Tibet is the source of many of Asia's great rivers. The Dalai Lama calls Tibet an "ecological disaster." There's rampant  deforestation, and China is proposing a number of big dam projects, which will have a huge impact.

For many, many years China didn't really care about the amount of environmental damage it was causing Tibet. In the 1980s until about late 1990s, there was huge deforestation in Tibet. Many, many trees were cut down. There was a whole desertification of the Tibetan plateau. But now China realizes that it also impacts them when this happens to Tibet. And many of the main sources, as I said before, of rivers in Asia, especially coming down to India and Southeast Asia, are in Tibet. If there is pollution and damage there, it's going to really impact the path it follows down to Asian countries. That India also realizes, and many other Asian countries. They have to work on environmental protection and maintaining biodiversity. That's very important.
In the Strasbourg proposal His Holiness talks about environmental protection. Another problem is the Tibetan plateau has been used by China as a nuclear dumping site. There is a lot of nuclear waste being dumped there. So we are calling in the Strasbourg proposal, the exiled government, for demilitarization of the zone as well. So if it's a whole zone, then there will be less damage to the environment. It will be much more protected, the fragile ecology of Tibet.

I recently visited the Gangotri area, which is the source of the Ganges. The glacier there has shrunk significantly. I assume the same kind of thing is going on in the Tibetan plateau: because of global warming, the glaciers are reducing in size.

That's precisely why we need to protect the fragile environment of Tibet. Global warming is impacting the whole world.

What do you think of Americans who drive around in their cars with "Free Tibet" stickers and attend meetings addressed by Hollywood celebrities?

It's, again, a difficult question. Over the years I have noticed that not all Hollywood celebrities are superficial. Richard Gere I think has been very sincere. I think he's been working on the Tibetan issue for something like 15 years. I think anybody, from any background, whether you are a celebrity or a Hollywood star, if you are sincerely committed to a cause, it's good. And Americans who display "Free Tibet" stickers, it's good for our cause provided that they are aware and they don't have kind of a romantic notion of Tibet as Shambhala or the Lost Horizon, if they don't have a mystical kind of image of Tibet. It has to be real. We are Tibetans, also we are human beings. And not all of us are spiritual or meditating every day. Some people have that kind of notion. If you are realistic and you support Tibet politically or in any other form, every individual is important for us and is valuable for our cause.

You are a member of the Tibetan parliament in exile. How do you become a member? Is there an election?

We have elections every five years. And it happens all over the exile community in India, Nepal and Bhutan. In America we have one member of parliament, and that the whole American Tibetan constituency would vote for. And it's not based on any province. But for us here, since my father is from Kham, I have the Kham constituency. I stand as one of the 10 elected members from Kham.

Tell me about Empowering the Vision.

Empowering the Vision is an NGO. It's a reincarnation of YOTA, Youth Opportunity Trust Asia. That organization was providing counseling and career guidance to young Tibetans. We've just revived this organization. We've tried to give it a new direction, a new kind of meaning. It's called Empowering the Vision because we want it to help Tibetans. It's like youth development for young Tibetans, because we have many young Tibetans who are in exile as refugees. They go through lots of hardships, not just as a Tibetan suffering because you can't go back to your home, but also as a young person looking for a job, finding a purpose in life. Not just political but as well as other purposes. So we try and help them and also try to connect them with the community as well. So we see it as a larger community development project and focusing youth empowerment.


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